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Mr. Rousseau - Please enjoy retirement, also I don't know if anyone has thanked you for being the front runner of shutting down the idea of the original downtown arena, which now you suggest we should ask "What if?" to. Or thanked you for the alternative that you provided us with - 2000 seats above the nose bleed section - I haven't been up there, but I hear you can see Lake Michigan. Thats just me - I prefer seats where I can actually see the action, not a mile high up in the air.
But its great that you are saying we should ask, "What if". Pretty hypocritical wouldn't you say Mr. Rousseau? Here's a question for you, "What if we built a new Coliseum downtown?" Or "What if we had a highway that went through downtown?" Or "What if we didn't immediately say no to ideas that involve spending?"
If you keep saying 'what if' nothing will ever get done. There are a million 'what ifs' but the only way you'll find out the answers to your 'what ifs' is by doing.
24 comments:
Thank you CFW, this blog is my daily form of entertainment.
First, I don’t know Ed Rousseau and I don’t particularly care about his past experiences. However, he does bring up an interesting question. He’s merely asked to have the options laid out on the table.
CFW, if you wanted to have your driveway replaced and someone came by and offered you a quote, would you simply accept that quote and tell them to get to work, or would you call up some other companies and find out what they’re charging? If you plan to make an investment in your property wouldn’t you like to know that you’ve researched the options and made a fiscally sound decision?
I don't think we have a problem with the general idea of exploring other opportunities. Of course there should be plenty of research so that a fiscally sound decision can be made. However, as Mr. Leatherman says, who else makes sense in this case? Hardball Capital is going to have a very large vested interest in the success of this project. I would like to see a list of other companies that the city should sent RFP's to.
What have we as a city been doing the last several decades in regard to other opportunties downtown, such as a water park, etc? Anything? Delaying this project may kill it forever (which is what an unfortunate amount of people want apparently). I think that is our fear. As Mayor Richard said, "The risk is to do nothing." If Rousseau had his way, I am of the opinion that we'd probably never do anything at all, and it will be back to business as usual in Fort Wayne.
For opponents of Harrison Square, this is a no lose situation. Mr. Rousseau unintentionally pointed this out. They voiced their discontent, and if it fails, they will be able to say, "We told you so." If it succeeds, they will be able to say, "We're glad to be wrong."
I applaud the Mayor and the councilmen that have gotten behind this project 100%. It's about time we have progressive vision in Fort Wayne. It's just a shame it took this long, and we have so many people willing to "do nothing."
Anon -
I think you are on the borderline of making a good point. I don't look at it as if I am presently needing something fixed.
To use your analogy -
My driveway is made of dirt. The government is willing to foot some of the bill, but only for a limited amount of time. A company comes along that owns an asphalt company says We'll pay for some of the driveway and we'll paint your house for you too, and if it works out, we'll build you a gazebo as well.
Make sense? Maybe not, but FW has all the ducks lined up for baseball. We have already said no to a new arena in the past. I'm saying that we have said 'what if' and we said 'no' when the opportunity for those 'what ifs' where there.
Any project involving public money is potentially a “losing” situation.
I agree that it is nice to see progressive vision in Fort Wayne. If we didn’t have that kind of vision, the old Southtown Mall would still be standing. But that doesn’t mean that we should make rash decisions.
Any venture involving any money has the potential to 'lose'
But, Please tell me what the downside or negative effect TO YOU, HS will have? How was this personally affect you?
Yes, rash decision. Go back and look at all the studies we commissioned. All the money spent on planning downtown. Blueprint, blueprint plus, Downtown Baseball, the list goes on and on - there's even more.
When we brought in outsiders, guess what? - Baseball stadium, downtown.
If downtown development had been a brand new concept in Fort Wayne, and had not been talked about in the last thirty years (like it has been), and Mayor Richard held a press conference in which he held up a cocktail napkin with a drawing of a baseball diamond on it and FW built it. Yes, that would have been 'rash decision'
ZING!
I pay taxes.
ZING!!!!!
As long as we're stating facts:
The sky is blue.
Birds fly.
So how does HS affect the fact that you pay taxes?
death. and taxes.
we know.
got anything else?
Are you simply mad because you have to pay taxes? You said nothing. Taxes are going to be around as long as you live, hate to break it to you.
Anon.,
Are you saying the city should never try anything because there is "potential" it will be a loser?
How will anything ever get done with that line of thinking?
I guess we shouldn't fund research for disease because there is a "potential" we will never find all the cures.
I pay taxes too.
ZING!
I pay taxes in Ohio.
ZING!
ZINGERS BABY!
ZINGERS ALL AROUND!
kramyelamo
You said, “For opponents of Harrison Square, this is a no lose situation. “
I was simply pointing out that there is no such thing. Every project of this type involves risk, which is a fact. That doesn’t mean that I am opposed to this or any other project. To distort my comments by saying that I am opposed to anything “different” is downright weak. If I were to follow that line of reasoning, I could argue that you are in favor of everything “different”.
In reference to the comments regarding taxes, CFW wanted to know how this project would personally affect me. Simply put, I pay taxes. If it doesn’t affect me then I guess you won’t need any of my tax dollars for the project….which is great.
Finally, personally I could care less if they constructed a baseball stadium downtown. You all have assumed that I am against the stadium because I supported Ed’s comment regarding the RFP.
Sorry Anon - we don't have a reference point for Anonymous posts.
Its my understanding that RFPs are directed towards contractors to bid a project. Correct? Such as our RFP for a hotel going out to different hotel chains.
In my opinion it would have been a bad idea to lay all our cards on the table for an open slate project. This meaning the city offering an RFP for a "downtown project" in which the downtown project could be anything from a baseball stadium to 'the world's largest block of cheese'.
Yes, I did say it's a no lose situation for the opponents of HS. I never once said it's a no lose situation for the actual project itself. What are you talking about?
Even Mike Sylvester (Master Sergeant of the Resistance Movement) has openly quoted the actual taxpayer liability to only represent about a 0.1% increase in their property taxes.
For most homeowners in Fort Wayne, this will represent about $2 per year.
My time is worth enough that it has cost me more than that to even type this comment to point it out. I'll send a bill c/o Anonymous.
$2 a year?????
I can't affod that.
I'm to po.
Andrew,
The long term cost is much greater than you describe because all this property will be removed from the tax rolls - at least as far as all the other taxing bodies are concerned. In an environment of rising government spending (see FWCS) we cannot afford to remove property from the tax rolls - especially property that has such a large upside.
Using TIF districts is a convenient political tool but it's a poor economic decision.
See my post here for more detail...
Jeff,
One point seems to get lost or purposefully left out of the TIF arguement. While designating one area for TIF and pulling those property tax dollars off the rolls to pay for the improvements, the intent is to spawn more investment in surrounding areas. This generates new property tax revenue, aka the return on investment. TIFs are a creative way to self fund development anchors/catalysts.
Jeff,
I appreciate and understand your comments...but regardless the hypothetical implications, I can point to at least 3 places where Sylvester has used the very number to which I refer...
Granted, I had to take the average home value in Fort Wayne, figure the average property tax using the 2006 table and increase that by Sylvester's 0.1% to get my $2 figure (it was actually about $1.70, but I rounded up for the benefit of Aboite residents)...
Sorry, but I've always thought that forecasting was junk science, especially when applied to government and taxes...and it's been proven time and again by local and state governments all over the U.S. There are too many unforseen variables, to which there are no good ways to attach specific values.
What is being "removed" from the tax rolls?
The TIF district is mostly all new development that will likely not happen without the stadium. Gee, I'd hate to see the general fund lose all that property tax revenue from King Gyros.
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