There are several reasons why I believe we will get a waterpark instead of proposed HS - if this 'rabbit out of the hat' referendum occurs.
The debate over HS has spun so wildly out of control we have lost sight of what the Harrison Square deal was originally proposed for.
HS was proposed as a catalyst or an anchor for more development downtown. It was to create a downtown in which people would want to live in and hopefully make the city more attractive to bring jobs for young professionals. Young professionals who are usually the ones who reside downtown.
The debate has veered so far off of the original intent, that now we are asking people that are nearing retirement age to recommend what we should do to attract younger people. We are also claiming that HS, which hardball intends to have events there 200 days out of the year, will not be used enough during the year.
This reminds me of my years during undergrad. My university had been trying to figure out something to provide for the students to give them some sort of social activity. They screamed "Social Space", without even asking the students of what they would like to see on campus. The result was that they bulldozed a bar, built a restaurant and a conference area - expecting students to flock there. Dead wrong. The moral behind this story is ask your target audience, if you are going to start a steakhouse - don't poll vegetarians and see if they are interested.
Instead we are pushing towards the 'family oriented' business that can be used all year round. Which draws me to the conclusion that we are probably going to get an indoor waterpark.
Reasons this is a terrible idea as a catalyst/anchor for downtown, especially if the idea is to attract young professionals and or new business. Also some reasons, I will probably never go.
1. Can you honestly see people in their 20s hanging out there?
2. I only like to swim when the weather is warm, and even then I would be outside at the CC drinking a cold coldie.
3. A waterpark is not a community asset, it is a tourist attraction.
4. No one is going to rush to buy the new condos next to the waterpark. This is if we can find anyone to develop them, after we say no to Hardball.
5. Most people will go once, to see it - and thats it. But lets face it - a ballpark has more usability to a 70 year old than a water park. Which is more likely - my grandfather running up the ladder to get back on the waterslide or him sitting there enjoying a 9 inning game?
6. A waterpark does not provide people with the options to go out and spend money after they are done swimming. If I were to use the waterpark, I will go home immediately and shower and change. I will not be sitting in a bar/restaurant smelling like chlorine, nor will I be drinking at a bar before I go and drown at the waterpark.
7. This area already has tons of water attractions. How many people do you know have a lake house? I know about 6 people and pretty much have a standing invitation at all of them.
8. Again, how many 20 somethings want to be sitting in a urine saturated pool with a bunch of 8 year old tourists. (I'm all for developing tourism in FW, but not as an anchor for downtown).
I may have missed a couple of reasons why this will not be a draw for people downtown or for young professionals. Feel free to remind me.
This project needs to be directed back towards those who this was originally intended for - the future of FW.
38 comments:
You hit the nail on the head.
Water Park=the final dagger for Fort Wayne.
It's too bad.
Yep, the two I hear most often are:
- Youth Sports
- Indoor Water Park
If you think either of those will draw any young professionals downtown, think again.
We need something that keeps people in Fort Wayne past 7.30 at night. Fort Wayne needs a nightlife downtown.
It's so funny, though. Instead of looking at the big picture, people are being really selfish about this. Fort Wayne has a massive contingent of people who are quick to ask "what's in it for me?" every time anything is on the drawing board at City Hall.
C'mon, seriously...a SKATING RINK? An "indoor water park?" The scope of this thing has gone from apple pies and dollar signs to an exercise in stupidity, with each talking head trying to get their own agenda amplified and pushed through.
I think baseball is stupid, but I'd rather see a baseball stadium down there than some hideous pole barn full of chlorinated water or a big slab of ice.
God I hope you're wrong.
Right on, CFW!
Hey now... Wet-N-Wild Water Park is a huge hit in Orlando. I always enjoy going on vacation there. You should see all the stares from people I get when I walk around the park sportin' my Speedo. A Water Park in FW means I get to strut around a little closer to home.
CFW, I admire your passion for downtown redevelopment. However, I didn't realize that young professionals were dying to live next to baseball stadiums. Cool.
A baseball stadium will draw baseball fans, which are limited in number....just as the people who would visit a waterpark are limited in number.
You know, INPlanner, Baseball stadiums can be cool, and host cool events, and be surrounded by other cool things....even if you don't like baseball. Seriously, even for somebody like me who HATES baseball...I think it would be extra effing sweet to live in a condo that overlooked the outfield during a night game...or on fireworks night.
Hell yeah.
Forget about a stadium, casinos are where it's at baby!!!!!!!111 Yeah!!!!!!!!1
I believe a casino is too risky. But, expanding on the Water Park idea...
How about a combo Water Park/Trailer Park for downtown FW ??? I foresee this being a colossal hit. This sucker would be crawling with people 24/7. I bet Fort Wayneians couldn't get enough of it. There would be all kinds of fun-filled, super-soaker rides that would excite the whole family. This is it - the Water Park/Trailer Park combo is our ticket to the future. Come on people, let's make this dream into a reality !
Hey man, that sounds awesome! But what if we were to build a new football stadium and try to lure the Colts here?
inplanner - If you don't think that young professionals would enjoy living next to a ballpark, then you definitely haven't been out of FW. A nice ballpark creates architecturally interesting view and it also signifies nightlife. Ballgames usually are evening events. Now if you can create an event and give people something to do afterwards in the evening, you are bound to attract young people. I would definitely want to be closer to the action, so I wouldn't have to drive 20 minutes afterwards. You are correct - baseball does attract certain people, but they are repetitive events - year after year. I'd be much more likely go attend one of the events at the multiuse facility, than to be a repeat customer of the waterpark.
Andy - You are absolutely insane if you think we can support something the size of wet-n-wild. We do not have the land or the means. Plus Florida has a little better weather for an outdoor waterpark than we do. What we would get would be the equivalent to FunSpot, but with water and indoors.
CFW, I have been outside of Fort Wayne. I've been to New Haven, and Huntertown, and Woodburn......
Young people want to live near night life. The baseball stadium could spur restaurants and bars due to incomiing and outgoing traffic to the games and other events. Personally, I think Fort Wayne should try to fill the Verizon Amphitheatre gap which was one of my hopes with the design of the ball park as well.
Ask Sylvester about his bachelor days in New York City. We all had them and the best part was that we were in walking distance from bars, restaurants, and entertainment. The disconnect is:
a) Can we have that in Ft Wayne
b) The best way to spur that.
Dave C
I think that young people who want to experience the "big city life" would prefer to move to a big city.
And another thing ... The Water Park/Trailer Park Combo that is now possibly planned for the HS site, would not involve as much site prep as the baseball stadium. Leave the Palace restaurant right where it is. It would make a terrific concession stand. The MLK montessori school could also stay. A sprinkler system could be installed on the playground making it into a low-tech Soaker City. Fill in the vacant lots with some double wides and sit back and watch the people flock to it. Hey, just thought of a name for the whole operation too: Double Wides and Slip-n-Slides. Come on FW, the time to make it happen is NOW !
"INplanner said...
I think that young people who want to experience the "big city life" would prefer to move to a big city."
Uhh, yeah...since Fort Wayne is just a one-horse water stop between Harlan and Wabash....
Just because Fort Wayne has lots of trailers doesn't mean people should have to drive to other cities to cut loose.
INPlanner is a lot like a neutered dog
He just doesn't get it.
What's the matter Andrew, am I ruining your dreams of landing a high profile position at the new ballpark as a hotdog vendor?
inplanner, I disagree. Some of the greatest towns to live in have great night life and are quite small. One of my favorites is Charlottesville, VA which has less than half the people of Fort Wayne ... of course it is a university town.
Sure. WTF's it to ya?
Quick poll....how many bloggers here moved to Fort Wayne from another city? How many moved to Fort Wayne from a larger city? Why did you move to Fort Wayne?
INPlanner:
If you want to conduct a poll, start a blog.
Sorry Andrew, did I hit a nerve? I guess this neutered dog still has some bite. Sorry.
I'll tackle this.
I moved from Austin, TX for family reasons. Were it not for that, I'd probably still live in Austin, launching my company there. Unfortunately, I couldn't convince my family to move. With that said, Fort Wayne has been good to my business but it may be prohibitive in growth stage, due to our need to do recruiting from other regions.
Dave C.
Actually, you're drivel just gets on my nerves more than it actually hits one in particular.
Gee, the teeth you wield as a pseudonym-clad stalker of comboxes...
Naah, just a nutless dog.
To answer my own question, I moved here from Indianapolis. What? That can't be? Fort Wayne doesn't have a baseball stadium downtown. That's impossible!
Well folks, after going to college and living in what I'd considered the "big city" for a couple of years, I chose to move to a smaller city where I could settle down and raise a family.
The point is, not everyone that is a young professional wants to live in a condo in a downtown area. Some young professionals do, but they're bound to choose cities that are more urban in nature like Indy, Cleveland or Chicago.
BTW, I could have never afforded a condo just out of college when I living in Indy, nor could anyone else that I knew who was near my age. If you want housing in downtown Fort Wayne that is affordable, the more logical route would be apartments.
Man I hope this doesn't happen. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here is surprised. Fort Wayne is slowly becoming less and less appealing to me. I grew up in Fort Wayne and still have family/friends there--I love it, but I can see how businesses are luke warm (at best) to the idea of starting, or expanding in Fort Wayne. A water park!? I always thought I'd want to move back (and soon) from DC if I could find the right opportunity, but I'm starting to question that.
Dave, I really like your idea about the Verizon deal...I'm sure it's probably not feasible and I don't really know the status on what Indy/surrounding area and companies might do about the situation. That would be great if we could draw big time outdoor concerts in the summer to the new ball park.
Maybe we should go back to the NASCAR track idea, instead of condos a trailer park and some dive bars. Yeeehaw! Y'all come back now ya'hear!
Maybe we could build an elevated, looped freeway around downtown and occassionally shut down all traffic to hold the NASCAR races. It would be Fort Wayne's coolest "roundabout". Tom Smith would be so proud.
And a baseball stadium will draw how many young professionals?
Thats right, ZERO...
Mike Sylvester
Review my/others previous posts about nightlife Mike.
"where I could settle down and raise a family"
Exactly, that is why you moved to Fort Wayne.
Now: Statistically: Entrepreneurs are getting younger and people are waiting longer to get married and have kids.
What does this mean ?
Music, good beer, and professional sports lure young professionals (and probably more)
Happy Hours lure young professionals
Masters and Phd options lure young professionals
Greenway, Hike/Bike paths lures young professionals
and more ....
I'm a young professional and I'm taking my kids 6 hours out to Iowa where there is a big indoor water park in a couple of weeks. I guess that makes me a big *$&% loser.
No, you just proved my point. A water park is not a city asset, its a tourist attraction.
CFW, a water park would attract people from outsie the city....so would a baseball stadium.
The question is, why not both? What about a hotel that has an attached water park, like the one in Indianapolis?
Yes Mike,
Zero people would be attracted to a nice new ball park with bars and restaraunts nearby that you can walk to without being blasted by a car on coliseum boulevard.
ZERO!
You've got it, Mike!
inplanner,
Both might be exactly what happens. HS and the Indoor Water Park. I'm cool with that.
Dave
INplanner, finally something we can agree on. We have our sights set on one item and all the ducks are lined up. We have tons of available land downtown, we could have a multitude of amenities. I'm just saying a tourist attraction is not the first step downtown should take. While FW residents would use the waterpark, the majority of the people that use the facility on a regular basis, would be non-repeat customers from out of town.
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